Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:08 Good Planet pic, sea wind blowing trees, sunshine.
Speaker 2 00:00:34 Hello Case good listeners. It's every other Sunday again, and you're listening to sustainability Now, a biweekly case, squid Radio Show focused on environment, sustainability and social justice in the Monterey Bay region, California and the world. I'm your host, Ronnie Lipchitz. Prior to 2001, the term Homeland Security was once slightly redot of totalitarian dictatorships of the past. After nine 11, the George W. Bush administration created the Department of Homeland Security, whose responsibility encompassed not only attacks by foreign and domestic terrorists, but also response to so-called natural disasters through the Federal Emergency Management Agency and others. More recently, Homeland Security has been extended to include protecting communities from the growing impacts of climate change. My guest today is Jackie McLeod, Watsonville's Environmental Sustainability Manager in the Public Works department. McLeod has been accepted, uh, is already in the Naval Graduate School's Masters of Art in Security Studies at their Center for Homeland Defense and Security in Monterey, quoting from a recent Santa Cruz Sentinel column by Rachel Kippen. McLeod says people might see the words Homeland security and think that it doesn't match with public works and climate change, but public works is homeland security adjacent in that we provide domestic security to residents. One of the greatest threats to our residents is climate change. Jackie McLeod, welcome to Sustainability now.
Speaker 3 00:02:04 Thank you. Looking forward to talking to you and being here today. Well,
Speaker 2 00:02:08 Why don't we begin with your background, you know, where, where did you come from? What have you done, and what are you doing now in Watsonville?
Speaker 3 00:02:14 I've had a long journey to getting to the city of Watsonville. I actually grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, along the Mississippi River. Spent a lot of my childhood in the outdoors, backpacking and moved to California. When I was 11, I moved to Northern California, and in high school I determined uc. Santa Cruz was gonna be my home. I wanted to study water quality and earth sciences, and it was one of the best programs when I was in school over 20 years ago. So I received my degree, wanted to work in water quality, had no idea what that would look like, so I started volunteering in the community. The great thing about Santa Cruz is we have a lot of nonprofits locally. So Coastal Watershed Council was my first volunteer, and then I got hired by City of Santa Cruz to be in their water department, tested a lot of water there, and went to the city of Watsonville when an opportunity came up in their water quality laboratory. And that's where I've been for the past 16 years now. And through the city of Watsonville, I've had the opportunity to work both at the micro level in the laboratory and be exposed to larger projects in the city of Watsonville and the community and what a community it is. I feel very fortunate every day to serve as a public servant there.
Speaker 2 00:03:27 Well, you wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 3 00:03:29 I do.
Speaker 2 00:03:29 <laugh>, maybe you could tell us a bit about those different hats. It's like Bartha Cubans right? In the thousand and one hats.
Speaker 3 00:03:35 Yeah. I, uh, joke when people ask, what do you do for the city of Watsonville? I say, well, I'm a Jackie of all trades. When I look at my job profile, it takes a team behind me, of course, in the environmental sustainability division, but we focus on flood control, which controlling floods is ironic. So flood risk reduction, storm water programs, hazard mitigation programs, climate action and adaptation. I also oversee our source control department, our laboratory, and our field services. All of those programs are very connected by the thread of environmental, social, and economic justice in our community.
Speaker 2 00:04:14 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, well, you're also, you also oversee the climate action plan for the city. Yeah. Um, what, what is, uh, Watsonville planning to do about, uh, climate change? And we've heard we've had, you know, people from Santa Cruz come and, and talk about that, although that was a while ago. Yeah. Is that, what are, what are you planning? You know, what are your plans?
Speaker 3 00:04:35 So, plans are great because we usually can create and shoot for the stars. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the thing when you're shooting for the stars is what can you implement? What can you actually do to move that needle closer to providing the community with actual climate adaptation? So the local hazard mitigation plan that we've written is actually the foundation and the local Hazard mitigation plan is a FEMA document itself. It underlies every mitigation and climate action and adaptation. We do have aspirational goals. We have lofty, lofty plans for the city of Watsonville. What we can see on the ground already happening are equitable EV charging stations for residents and the community. We also invested regionally because climate knows no boundaries. So yes, each jurisdiction is mandated to have their own plan, but we are partnered with County of Santa Cruz, city of Santa Cruz, Monterey County, San Benito, so that we can work multi jurisdictionally.
Speaker 3 00:05:32 And we just recently are launching bike share mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which launched in City of Santa Cruz and is coming to Watsonville shortly. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we also are looking at transportation. So we just applied regionally for $15 million Federal Highway Administration Act grant through AMBA as well. Those are some of the very high level actions we're taking. When we surveyed the community, though, those didn't meet the mark, what they're worried about are food security issues, being able to stay in their homes, being able to retain their livelihoods and their work. So the city of Watsonville is unique that we actually created community gardens for the residents. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we give out fruit trees at some of our, um, first Fridays, or they're, they're kind of, our food are, I'm looking for the right, you'll
Speaker 2 00:06:23 Have to go up with the, the term I don't,
Speaker 3 00:06:25 I'm not sure <laugh>, it's like our farmer's market, but Yeah. Yeah. But it has a lot of different stands and it has, um, we, we tend to do a lot of outreach at our farmer's market mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's not just your traditional food market. And that's where we give away fruit, fruit trees as well.
Speaker 2 00:06:40 Well, I know Watsonville falls within, um, federal definitions of, uh, low income community as well as, uh, highly impacted by air pollution. I think it is. Right. How is the, how is the, the, the Climate Action Plan addressing that?
Speaker 3 00:06:56 Yeah, those are great questions. Some of the lofty goals are how can we get more residents into active transportation? And so that looks at how do we create safer streets for bike riding? That's where the, um, regional bike sharing comes in with B Cycle. The other air quality issue is we know we have to transition from gas, gas cars, diesel cars. So we're actually looking into a grant with Ecology Action and amba for ride share. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because in a low income community, there's a supply and demand issue are ready with EVs. Right. In a low income community, it's even more challenging to get residents to convert to ev. So how can we do that? Well, we can look into ride shares so that people can check out cars and still use them and get to their works and school.
Speaker 2 00:07:46 Would this be like Zipcar or would this be more like a carpooling, uh, arrangement?
Speaker 3 00:07:51 I believe it would be like a Zipcar situation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, where it's hubbed within a city facility. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or a county facility. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it would be regional as well. So we're not sure where those would live still, but yes, it would be similar to a Zipcar.
Speaker 2 00:08:06 Um, well, you know, I've, I've had, as I said, I mentioned, I had several guests on sustainability now to talk about climate action plans. And, um, there's a lot of aspiration in them. Right. And a lot of reliance on other sectors to execute. So, um, on whom does implementation ultimately reply, uh, rely on Watsonville, the city, its residents business. How do you, because of course you'd like to get the residents and enrolled in all of this, but there are, there are income issues, and as you pointed out, they have other kinds of priorities, which are much more short term. Um, so how do you, you know, how do you think about in terms of meeting the, the, the mandates of the plan, you know, who is going to actually be doing the implementation? That's always the tricky part.
Speaker 3 00:08:58 It is really tricky. And, um, the city itself will lead the way where we can mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So what does that look like? It means within our climate action plan, there are departmental goals that we have sectioned out, whether that's fleet electrification, whether that's looking at solid waste and saying, Hey, we need to do composting to meet a mandate. But that also meets climate action goals. So interdepartmentally within the city, those implementers will have a lead person in that department. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> jurisdiction wide. When we look at partner agencies, that means working with our nonprofits in City of Watsonville to help break down those barriers with residents. There's this issue with trust with local government as well, and our residents. We need to make sure that we speak bilingual to them. Mm-hmm. That we give them the resources to actually make implementation easier. Right. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:09:54 <affirmative> so that we can overcome those barriers. I always like to say we implement projects and pilots to have a demonstration that the city can show you how to do it, and we hope that you're able to adopt it in your own homes. Right Now, we received a, um, grant from the local CCCA A, which is a community aggregate for electric. So three ce, three ce, yeah. Three ce, which will allow us to pilot going from gas to electric. Right? Yeah. And that means, you know, your gas water heater, your gas stoves. And so we're looking into that with, um, CCCs. They're a local business that will help us look at weatherization and making that move for our residents. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, ideally, what does equity look like in a community? Our, like ours, it's giving the tools and resources to those community members. So those barriers are removed for implementation?
Speaker 2 00:10:44 Well, I know it's been, it's been, historically it's been difficult in low income communities and, and, you know, there are issues, like if you're a renter, what is your commitment to the property? Right. And if you're a, an owner, you know, what is your commitment to the renters? I mean, it's a, it's a tough nut to crack. And,
Speaker 3 00:11:03 Uh, it's very challenging. We look to a lot of grant funded programs so that it removes that accountability to a renter versus an owner so that renters themselves can also be good climate stewards. Yeah. To do good work within their apartments. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or within their rented homes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. The main thing is, is it's gonna take everyone we know climate knows no boundaries, but within a community, we also know that it can't just be the city working on it. We need that partnership with our residents. So it is very challenging.
Speaker 2 00:11:39 Well, let's turn down to Homeland Security. I mean, that's why I asked you to be on the show because you're, you're in this program, and I looked up the definition of Homeland Security on the website of the Department of Homeland Security and had trouble finding anything that, that, that was really clear. And I found a, a good one of all places on the EPA website. So let me read it. Okay. Homeland Security is a subset of national security, and they are both inextricably linked. National security is the security and defense of a nation state, including its citizens, economy, and institutions, which is regarded as a duty of government, originally conceived as protection against military attack. National security is now widely understood to include non-military dimensions such as security from terrorism, minimization of crime, economic security, energy security, environmental security, food security, and cybersecurity. I mean, that covers an awful lot of territory. It's, it's hard to see what's left, but how would you define Homeland Security in the context of Watsonville?
Speaker 3 00:12:44 That's a great question. I'm finishing my quarter one right now for the Center of Homeland Defense and Security Program in Monterey. And one of the first exercises we had to do was research. What does Homeland Security mean to you? I came in with a lot of bias. I came in with Homeland Security, looks like protecting my community from natural hazards. When we started researching and I started learning from my cohort, and my cohort is made up of epidemiologists, fire, police, FEMA management, I sort of had to remove that hat of, well, this is what it means to me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and understand, well, it can mean that, and it also means cybersecurity risk. It means looking at my residence and saying, well, what if covid would happen? Again, that's a security risk as well for myself right now, where I am in the program and my understanding, I do look at Homeland Security as the all hazards definition within a community that does look at, as EPA stated, natural hazards, climate resiliency, water, cybersecurity, transportation, the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency that lives under DHS has identified 16 different sectors that are vulnerabilities that need protection for homeland security.
Speaker 3 00:14:06 So I work squarely in the water, wastewater, transportation and energy sectors myself, as well as flood security.
Speaker 2 00:14:14 Well, you're listening to sustainability now. I'm Ronnie Lipschitz, your host, and my guest today is Jackie McLeod, who is the sustainability manager in Watsonville's, uh, public Works Department. And we've been just starting to talk about, uh, Homeland Security and what it means. Maybe you can tell us some more about the program at the Naval Post Graduate School, because, uh, for most of us, it's a kind of a mysterious place with, you know, which, which we drive by. When you go to Monterey and, and I've, I've, in the past, I mean, I've looked at curriculum and, you know, talked to people there, but it's still a little unclear, I think to most people, most of our listeners, what actually the school does.
Speaker 3 00:14:55 Yeah. It's, it's still a mystery to me. I get lost on campus all the time. I'm actually going back there in two weeks, um, through public agencies. I was introduced to the Center for Homeland Defense Insecurity at the Naval Postgraduate School by a colleague of mine that had finished his Masters of Arts and Security Studies. He is a wastewater division manager at the city of Watsonville. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I had never thought about getting a master's. I'm pretty entrenched in public service. This program is offered only for public servants. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you have to be serving in for a municipality, federal, state, local government. We even have a mayor on in our cohort this year. And when we look at,
Speaker 2 00:15:40 Do they come from all over the country?
Speaker 3 00:15:42 All over the, all over the nation. Okay. Okay. And the gentleman who sits next to me in my cohort, he's actually in Puerto Rico, and he works for fema. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So our cohort is very diverse. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, it's large. We all have very different backgrounds, and I'm one of the only Public works people in the cohort, which is unique. And it's itself because Public Works is adjacent to Homeland Security and the traditional thinking of Homeland Security, the program, they get, I believe, 200 to 300 applications you can apply in December and May, and they take, I believe, the top 5% of applicants into the program. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> applying for the program is no, no easy task. You have to write about five essays. You have to turn in your transcripts. I've been outta school for 20 years as well. So it definitely was a heavy lift in the program.
Speaker 3 00:16:34 What drew me to the program itself is learning from the cohort and learning from these experts in these Homeland security fields. I never thought of you read EPAs definition. My Q1 quarter is Intro to Homeland Security and threats in Psychology. So I'm researching terrorism and threats, which I never think about, and now I'm being introduced to it and really having to remove a lot of what I thought about terrorism. And this program itself, it covers, I believe, seven quarters. It's 18 months. It's a professional program, and it is on top of your work. So I'm still working full-time, and I go to school at night and I report in to the Naval Postgraduate School every quarter for two weeks. And I'm about to go back in two weeks right now.
Speaker 2 00:17:22 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, I should note that, that most of the students at the Naval Post Graduate school are mid-career military officers from the various services. Um, and they get various kinds of, of coursework. Um, although again, it's never been entirely clear to me what, what the results of that all are.
Speaker 3 00:17:44 It's a civilian program mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so we, we are not in the active military itself. No, I know that. And so we are in the civilian program, and so in terms of
Speaker 2 00:17:59 Put them on,
Speaker 3 00:18:00 I don't have any,
Speaker 2 00:18:02 Could just keep talking.
Speaker 3 00:18:03 Okay. So there in, within, within the civilian program and the seven quarters, we, our curriculum is laid out for the Center for Homeland Defense and Security. So we know we're gonna get policy and legislation. We also know that we're going to look at research methods because we're gonna have to write a thesis. And so when we're writing that thesis, we will take all of that coursework and build it into our thesis work.
Speaker 2 00:18:38 Um, well, so, so what is your, your, your focus and your thesis going to be about?
Speaker 3 00:18:44 That's a great question. What I came into school thinking I was gonna write about may not be what I end up writing about. Well, of course. Yeah. And so I wanted to focus on this terminology of resiliency as it relates to critical infrastructure after this winter working in Watsonville, it's probably no surprise why that would be a passion project for me with the immense flooding that we had in Watsonville. So that is what I'm thinking right now. But my quarter one paper is focused on resiliency, critical infrastructure, and how do we fund resiliency through critical infrastructure projects, particularly in public works.
Speaker 2 00:19:21 We use two terms there that I think could use some clarification. Right. Critical infrastructure and resiliency. Right. So, I mean, virtually all infrastructure as we understand it, is critical. If, if it goes out of whack or, or breaks down, things stop. So how, how is, you know, what is critical and what is what is less critical.
Speaker 3 00:19:45 So when we look at critical infrastructure, and what I'm learning through my program as well, so this is my initial take at it, is there are lifelines that FEMA identifies to residents. So that's delivering water. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> treating wastewater. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, making sure that you're able to get on a car, in a car and drive on a road and know that it's not gonna collapse or buckle under you, knowing that your levees are gonna hold over time so that your community isn't flooded. Your energy sector with these power shutoffs that we have in, in California, how are we gonna make sure that the grid still stays up for our residents to live their lives? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that for me is how I look at critical infrastructure. I've also always worked in public works. So we always say that we're the hidden heroes of critical infrastructure, because usually don't talk to us unless something goes wrong. If you turn on your tap and your water doesn't come out well, then you wonder what's going on with your critical infrastructure at that point in time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:20:42 <affirmative>, and then resiliency, which is another one of those, those terms, right?
Speaker 3 00:20:49 Yeah, absolutely. It, that resiliency, for me, that is a term that I both love and I hate it because there's no single definition is what I'm learning through a lot of federal and state programs and how we use it in our communities as well, when we want it to mean something to our residents. Resiliency looks like preparing our community for future natural hazards. So it's, it's almost future proofing what could happen. But with climate change and what we're seeing with these storms and the frequency of the winter events, as well as the fire we just had in Northern Santa Cruz County, it's unpredictable. You can't plan for something that you never thought about. So how do you become resilient towards that in the future? So I'm still working on what is my definition of resilience right now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:21:42 And in ecology, the definition is the ability of a, of an ecosystem to, uh, when it's disturbed Right. To, uh, restore itself to the, you know, previous sort of equilibrium status, although there's never really an equilibrium. And one of the things that's always concerned me about the term resilience is that it sounds an awful light lot. Like, well, we're gonna get you prepared, but in the event that something happens, you're largely on your own. And, you know, and I mean, I wouldn't say there was resilience in Paro, but it was certainly the fault of Monterey County for not, um, putting up the funding to, to strengthen the levee. I think that was the problem with the levee break. Right. Um, so I mean, resilience in that case would have been to do on the south side what Santa Cruz did on the north side, right?
Speaker 3 00:22:37 Yeah. And I'm gonna look at within my jurisdictional boundary, knowing yes, resilience is being able to bounce back quickly or recover from those events. When we look at the Paro River levee, what a long, twisted history that's been, I've only been working on it for 10 years, but over a 50 year history, it was in federal planning from federal planning, we now are fully funded for that project. So when we look at all the separable projects that went into the Power River Levy project, we wore attempting to make the community more resilient. And whether that was through operations and maintenance, there were small projects along the way to help keep that levee system going until we got the federal funding, the state funding, and now we have the local funding as well. So that project is in process. Paro is our sister city in Watsonville. Yeah. They're just across the bridge from us. Right. We did whatever we could. I served on our emergency operations center during this entire winter, and I know every department in the city, we were in unified command with the county of Santa Cruz, county of Monterey, city of Watsonville and Town Paro, and we did whatever we could to help those residents. And it was very tragic what happened.
Speaker 2 00:23:55 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, well, uh, in, in terms of, of flooding. Well, I mean there, there, there, there have been some incidents, flooding incidents in the last 20 or 30 years, I think. Um, there's now this concept of strategic withdrawal, I think it's, it's called, it's something like that, is basically if you have a community that's being repeatedly flooded, uh, because it's in a flood plain, right. Maybe the i, the best idea is to relocate the community.
Speaker 3 00:24:22 So there, there are repetitive losses, um, in our community that is not an option for our residents removing, uh, in, in Army Corps speak, we call that a take. So you're taking people's homes and their residents away from them. Yeah. Yeah. And that isn't an option in our community, nor I, I, I really can't speak to the Monterey side, but I believe it's not an option on that side either. These are people's homes, these are the people that we see working very hard in the community course, and it's their livelihoods through FEMA's community rating system program. There are metrics and the city participates in this program mm-hmm. <affirmative> for residents in a flood plain, you can elevate your structure. There's other ways to flood proof your home, even though you live in a flood plain. We also have building ordinances for the homes that are being, if they're doing substantial improvement, et cetera. But in our community, there is, that is not an option that we're ever gonna seek.
Speaker 2 00:25:25 Yeah. Well, uh, you know, the, the, the proposals to do this, basically envision taking buildings wholesale and relocating them and, and thinking about the flood plain. Right. The flood plain is great agricultural land, but prior to it being, uh, turned into agricultural land, it was a flood plain, you know? So, I mean,
Speaker 3 00:25:46 Yes. The,
Speaker 2 00:25:46 It's not good to, it's not, not a wa good thing idea to build there, not that.
Speaker 3 00:25:51 Yeah. So that anything can be done. The geologist in me always thinks we have really fertile ground because it's always been a river floodplain. It's also very productive, high yield agricultural property. Right. This is the unique part of the Power River watershed. It's 1300 square miles. It encompasses four counties, San Benito, Santa Clara, Santa Cruz, and Monterey. And you have two cities living within the lower three miles of the watershed mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so the impacts come to us from the upper watershed. So we work collaboratively to implement projects. I was just on a call with my regional stormwater program managers, and from Watsonville, my nearest municipal partner is Morgan Hill. So that's a lot of area to cover on the river between us, which is agricultural, private. There are some land trust properties in there as well. And I believe when we looked at mixed land uses within a watershed, there's gonna be different rules for different parcels. And so when we look jurisdictionally in the city, we can do what we can do in our community to prevent flooding in the future.
Speaker 2 00:26:56 But resilience upstream does is important for resilience downstream. Right. I mean, that's a
Speaker 3 00:27:03 Absolutely
Speaker 2 00:27:03 A, a critical element of
Speaker 3 00:27:05 Absolutely. Yeah. And through, there's, there's so many flood agencies now, the Power River watershed, flood Prevention Authority was fund was found by Keeley. It was an assembly when he was the assembly member, Uhhuh <affirmative>. And that's a four county effort that mm-hmm. We participate in Santa Clara, San Benito, Monterey and Santa Cruz are married forever. In the lower watershed, that Water Prevention Authority, watershed Prevention authority was founded to get projects in place that prevent flooding in the lower watershed.
Speaker 2 00:27:38 Let's come back to that in a minute, because, uh, that's kind of interesting. You're listening to sustainability now. I'm Ronnie Lipchitz. My guest today is Jackie McLeod, who works, uh, in the Public Works department as wat of Watsonville as the Environmental Sustainability manager. And, uh, is now, uh, participating in the, uh, uh, masters of Arts and Security at the Naval Postgraduate School. Um, is this watershed agency a joint powers agency then, or does it in a sense that, does it have authority over what happens in the watershed, or is it simply a coordination mechanism?
Speaker 3 00:28:21 I would have to go and look in the original bill that founded it, but I believe it has authority over the watershed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that four county agency can apply for grants. They have a board, we have to vote on items, Uhhuh <affirmative>, and in the lower watershed, we just established a new JPA <laugh>. So, and they all sound the same Power River Flood Management Agency. And so that's lower watershed focused as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so both of them have authorities and boards that govern them to go for grant funding, to manage problems jurisdictionally wide regionally and watershed wide to make sure that the communities don't flood in the future. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:28:59 <affirmative>. I see. Well, uh, we were talking about your, your, you know, proposed research or thesis topic for your master's program. Maybe we can go back to that and, and one of your statements, you talked about a resilience toolbox. Are you still thinking about that and what does that mean?
Speaker 3 00:29:16 Yeah, that's a great question. I am thinking about it. I am still curious myself what that would look like, because there are gaps when we talk about resilience as we just did. There's so many different definitions, and I don't want it just to be a buzzword I throw out in my thesis. I really want it to have meaning because the idea behind the master's program is yes, you're there as a representative of the public agency represent, and what do you bring back to that community? And so I really wanna bring back a useful tool to my community so that we're combating climate change, we're combating flooding issues, we're combating any other natural hazards. One of our big natural hazards is key island effects. How do you manage that long term? Well, planting trees sounds great in a community, but in reality we have such a large amount of hardscape. How do you implement that long term? So yes, I'm still thinking about a resilience toolkit. What that looks like is gonna be informed by my cohort and my professors, because as I'm doing research, I'm finding that may have been tried in other communities already. So can I build upon that? Did someone else's thesis previously start there where I can kick off from there?
Speaker 2 00:30:30 Yeah. It's always, it's always good to see if someone else has done, done it and not reinvent the wheel. What have you found in terms of, of other, you know, efforts in this regard?
Speaker 3 00:30:42 I was very fortunate. My per one of my professors right now in my intro class, um, Bijon Creme had a student who wrote a thesis on resilience and looked at case studies from Vancouver, and I forget where the other communities are and how she actually took, what does that terminology resilience mean? What does, what does it do in communities in a built environment? And how can we build it out to mean something for social economic and environmental resilience in the future? One of the areas she said to look further was through FEMA's Hazard Mitigation Assistance Program. So my intro paper that I'm writing right now actually is kicking off from there, looking at the grant funding sources that fund resilience metrics through critical infrastructure. So
Speaker 2 00:31:30 What's a resilience metric?
Speaker 3 00:31:31 Ah, that's a great question. So in my, yeah, in my, in my paper right now, there's multiple resilience metrics. There's social, economic and environmental. In my paper, what I'm looking at are economic resilience metrics. So when I apply for grants, whether that be for, say, drinking water wells or am I looking at flood or storm water or green infrastructure, I wanna make sure the primary goal is if I'm building a storm water detention basin, it has flood attenuation, it's cleaning water quality, but is it also economic for my community? And the way I do that is I mandate it to run a stormwater and a flood control program. Can I build a project though that supports that mandate through a grant funded program? And so that's where that economic resilience is. It's not gonna come from my residents, I'm gonna grant funded it
Speaker 2 00:32:26 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it's not gonna come from the directly from the community, from the city.
Speaker 3 00:32:31 No, it's not from the community. It's, I, whenever I try to apply for grants, I'm really focused on what they consider no match requirements because our community is economically distressed. I think the current US census shows, I have 19% of my community living below the federal poverty limit. Yeah. Our per capita is $19,000 a year. I don't wanna put an additional economic burden on my community for these mandates, but I know I can create a multi-benefit project that meets the need without it burning them.
Speaker 2 00:33:05 Well, let's say you did get a grant and you were building a stormwater detention basin. Okay. Probably should tell our, for those who don't know, you know, also explain what that does is and what it does. Um, do you, how do you, how do you get the community involved in doing something like that?
Speaker 3 00:33:24 I am so fortunate that I've been able to actually get grant funding for stormwater basins. What they do is when it rains, they actually percolate water into the groundwater, treat water so that it doesn't get into the groundwater dirty. They also are flood attenuation plains. And what does that mean? It means it slows the water down from a peak flow volume before it would get back out into a river or wetland system. What does that look like for my community? So that they know what they are. I partner with Watsonville Wetlands Watch in the Resource Conservation District of Santa Cruz County, Uhhuh, and we have volunteer days. So I have residents actually going into the basins and doing restoration projects and removing weeds or planting new repairing corridors. So one of my biggest projects right now is actually what we're calling middle stru slough. I received a grant from the Ocean Protection Council for 1.18 million to increase habitat, increase walkable space for the community to be in the wetlands and improve water quality long term. And I do have two stormwater basins planned in there, which right now I've had a volunteer days and I've had the climate core, which is youth leaders within Paro Valley High School come out and they've actually removed invasive species, and they're getting the ground ready to replant right now.
Speaker 2 00:34:46 Oh, I, okay, so, so this is not actually, this is working with the, uh, the habitat as opposed to putting in any kind of retention basins, basically, or
Speaker 3 00:34:59 This is a green infrastructure project. Okay. Nature-based solutions. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we want to work, you want to take a highly channelized version of what you have and try to restore it to what it once was. We wanna give the water more area to spread out. Right. When we create a detention basin, there are gonna be structural elements coming from the streetscape. So we're talking about, um, drain and LUTs that come into the slew right now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, before they get to the slew though, we wanna make sure that we remove any contaminants or pollutants of concern. Okay. Uhhuh. So we'll create a depression with certain media and certain plants that we know will uptake nutrients that will hold back sediment and pathogens before it gets to the slew. But working with nature instead of against it,
Speaker 2 00:35:43 Um, well, prevention is pref preferable to recovery. Right. And I mean, resilience is part of that, I think is the idea is that, you know, you try and, and, and this is the idea of the green infrastructure, right? Is that you, you develop the landscape in ways that such that the disaster is prevented. Um, I wanna get back though to the, uh, to the Paro River break, you know, and the fact that Monterey County gambled on this, um, and my sort of recollection was, and maybe I have this wrong, uh, was that the county looked at where investing the funds had the highest return rather than, you know, posed the most risk. I mean, am I wrong about that? I thought I had read something about that, but maybe I I got it wrong. I don't wanna,
Speaker 3 00:36:35 I'm unsure about that. I know through the federal US Army Corps of Engineers, when they look at benefit cost ratios, especially for the river, they go reach by reach bank by bank. That federal standard is set by the Army Corps of Engineers where federal investment is, I'm unaware of the county of Monterey and where they chose to invest funding or operations and maintenance. I know City of Watsonville through zone seven, county of Santa Cruz invest in operations and maintenance mm-hmm. Of the levee. That benefit cost ratio that is established at the federal level plays a huge role in where we reduce risk to communities. And the federal area that they choose to reduce risk is usually in communities where residents are and their homes are. But I'm unsure of the Monterey calculation and how they chose to invest their funding.
Speaker 2 00:37:26 Yeah. I mean, I may, I'm, I probably have that wrong, but, but I know that the, the, that the, the Army, I have heard that the Army Corps of Engineer also takes into account property values, right. When it's deciding, you know, where, where to reinforce the levian, where not to. Right. And of course, baot is not a rich community. Um, and I'm presuming Monterey County had funds, you know, army Corps funds, uh, with, you know, with directed towards, towards flooding. A again, I, I don't wanna, um,
Speaker 3 00:38:00 So go
Speaker 2 00:38:01 Too far too far out on the limb on this. So
Speaker 3 00:38:03 It's a unique situation to have a federal investment. You have to have non-federal sponsors. So the two non-federal sponsors previously were County of Santa Cruz and Monterey County Water Resource Agency. This was historical the past 20 years. Yeah. The federal government has calculations for 75%, 25%. So 75% of the funds for a project have to come from the federal government, 25% from, from local, from these non-federal sponsors. We have been very fortunate with our state legislators, so Assembly member Cero, actually through Prop one E way back when actually help fund those projects. And so I would say that the investments into what has happened on both sides has always been driven by our legislators and grant funding, along with working with the Army Corps of Engineers and through these local benefit assessments, through property taxes. You're right that the math for Army Corps of Engineers does look at property values.
Speaker 3 00:39:07 That math is so far above me, <laugh>. And when we, when they did the feasibility document and we read it, what they take into account for property value, they also took in crop values, and they actually created a unique equation for this area due to the high yield crops. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it's, the Army Corps is the one that sets that funding matrix for projects. Yeah. It's recently changed now because now the non-federal sponsor is Power River Flood Management Agency. So now it's Watsonville Pharel, Monterey County, Monterey County Water Resource Agency, and County of San Santa Cruz are all going in together for this Army Corps project.
Speaker 2 00:39:50 Um, in that, in that statement that you wrote for the, for with your application to the, to the Naval Postgraduate School, you suggested establishing a Department of Resiliency in the city. And I was wondering how, you know, what would that encompass? How would it operate and wouldn't you still have coordination problems?
Speaker 3 00:40:11 I think we always are gonna have coordination problems. I'm never gonna say we're gonna fix that, but we've seen successful developments. If we look at County of Santa Cruz, for example, they developed, or three, so the Office of Resilience Recover Recovery Center. And so they have that model now where they're staffing. So to get back to your preventative question, that's one of their founding priorities is prevention. And they do help with recovery as well. So the, you have now a whole team devoted to just that recovery and prevention. When I wrote my essays, I was so idealistic of what, what was possible, and it was before the flooding events that arrived. And so I still think it's critical to have a similar structure within City of Watsonville, because then you have a single person or a team working for prevention, recovery, resilience for the future, and that's how they turn their eye rather than being diverted for other projects and programs.
Speaker 2 00:41:14 You're listening to sustainability. Now, my guest today is Jackie McLeod. Uh, we're approaching the end of the program, but, uh, there's still a number of things that we, we have that, um, we can discuss. We were just talking about a Department of resiliency. So what responsibilities do you envision that encompassing?
Speaker 3 00:41:35 So we talked about how my, the sustainability division in Watsonville lives within Publix works right now. Right. So we implement, how could that move to more citywide? Right now we work Interdepartmentally with our, with our other partners, whether it be community development, parks, police, fire. When you move those main functions under the city manager's office, you now have a little more authority to work within the city to implement mm-hmm. <affirmative> and in Public Works. So I've worked in public works for 16 years. That's my main goal, is walk the walk. You're not gonna just say you're gonna do something and you're not gonna actually implement a project. And so within the Department of Resiliency, my vision if I were to forecast out, would be, let's actually take the Climate Action and Adaptation plan, and let's take the lo local Hazard mitigation plan and let's put those projects in place to help the community bounce back quicker from future natural hazards. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:42:38 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, well, what else have you learned in, in this program? I mean, you know, again, the, the, the concept of homeland Security as we've, we've pointed out, is a, is a very broad one. And, um, I know that, uh, the term security has become used in, in many, many contexts now. Right. And as sort of, uh, again, it's sort of linked to resilience in the sense that if you're secure, you are protected to some degree against, uh, unexpected events. Put it that way. Um, but what else have you learned?
Speaker 3 00:43:16 I have learned that living in public works for 16 years, I've been isolated and siloed. <laugh>, I've learned that I have a wealth of knowledge surrounding me in my cohort. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, learning from different sectors as well. I mean, it's not often I get to talk to someone that works in border patrol. Right. And so, or emergency management in Iowa, even where they deal with tornadoes on a regular basis. So I'm getting an, a bigger foundation of what is security and my point of view in my silo, I always thought, I want my residents to be able to turn on their water faucets, be able to flush their toilet and flip on their lights. That to me is security. When I walk in my door, I'm able to have what I expect to function from public works function Well, that's not how security is viewed in these other sectors.
Speaker 3 00:44:09 I've also learned that my professors are, it's a challenging curriculum. They are challenging what we think we know and pushing us beyond that to expand what we thought we knew coming in as professionals too. How can we actually contribute to the future of securing the nation, whether it be in local communities at state level or federal? How can we become practitioners and implement those security practices from an educational level, but make it real, make feed it back into your community and your job? So I feel, I, I'm, I always say I'm humbled and honored to be selected in the program because I look around the classroom and even my professor, and then I'm surrounded by brilliant people in there. I mean, the, all different walks of life, but I've learned quite a bit already, and we have something called Monterey Rules, so I can't share them all. It stays within the classroom. Right? Yeah. But we definitely lean on each other. And my greatest strength is learning from my cohorts smarts. Really.
Speaker 2 00:45:17 Uhhuh <affirmative>, did you have to get a security clearance for this program?
Speaker 3 00:45:20 I have to always get cleared to go on base. Um, I did not have to get an official, have security clearance. Didn't. Okay. So they're not,
Speaker 2 00:45:29 Did they're not revealing secrets to you?
Speaker 3 00:45:31 No. Oh gosh, no. And hopefully they don't. Geez, I can't imagine what they've seen in their professions and lifetimes. Um, but yeah, we did not have to get security clearance to be on base at Naval Postgraduate. You did have to go to background check. Of course.
Speaker 2 00:45:44 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, one of the, one of the, I, I wouldn't call it a contradiction Exactly right. The, the, but the tensions within this whole concept of Homeland Security, right. Is that it's, it's, it derives from the idea of national security as, as the definition pointed out. On the other hand, there's all this local, these local features, right. And every locale is different. And, uh, you know, it's so, so even if you want to do something, let's say in Watsonville, it's going to be, it's going to encounter sort of different administrative and political environment than, I dunno, Ames, Iowa, where they have to worry, which is bigger, but which they have to worry about tornadoes. And I, does that come up that, that tension and how, how do you, how do you, you know, address it?
Speaker 3 00:46:36 It does come up. So we have discourse in class mm-hmm. <affirmative>, where what we may do in California, they may not be doing in New York, or they may not be doing in Iowa or Florida or Puerto Rico. That discord comes up quite a bit where, say even emergency operations Center, how we operate ours in Santa Cruz may be different than how they operate in Iowa. What we hope to do is leverage what we know worked and what we know didn't work, and how can we integrate that into our future best practices. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think what's challenging is when I can speak for myself with being in that silo, how I thought national security worked isn't how it actually is playing out. Right. So, so tell me about
Speaker 2 00:47:22 That. Tell
Speaker 3 00:47:23 Us about that. Yeah, so with national security, the, the DHS was founded after nine 11. Right. So it was really to deal with domestic, international terrorism and Right. Yeah. You know, that how it has grown over time. When we look at what is happening within our nation and we're looking at these climate changes and we're look, considering that as security risk, we've moved far from just international terrorism to the United States. We've moved to, okay, in order to create a secure nation, we also need to make sure that these sectors are protected as well. Again, I'm still a student, so I'm just learning all of this, and I'm only in quarter one and my mind's already been blown as it stands. So I can't wait to go through these next quarters to see what else I learn over time. So it's really evolving. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> what I, my understanding is, and what is national security, and I probably, if I came back here when I next semester, it'll have changed Once again, just learning from different professors.
Speaker 2 00:48:28 Do you think you're gonna stay, continue to work with the city, at the city? I mean, is that as opposed to, you know, going to the state or something like that? It's
Speaker 3 00:48:38 Actually one of the requirements of the program is that you stay at your agency for, I believe, two to five years, uhhuh. So my hope is to take whatever my knowledge is from this program mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and whether or not everything is gonna be implementable that I learn in school within the city, what can I bring back to my community to make us more secure in the long term? Because my community matters to me the most. And I do wanna make sure that even though this definition of resilience is still a little undefined, but how can we do better for our residents in Watsonville? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So,
Speaker 2 00:49:09 Well, we're, we're reaching the end of our time together. Is there anything else you'd like to, uh, to add to all of this? Maybe maybe you can, you know, since we now are footprint now reaches Watsonville with our new, uh, frequencies, you know, maybe you wanna say something to those Watsonville listeners about, about all of this?
Speaker 3 00:49:28 I do think it is an honor and privilege to be selected to be in the program I'm in right now. And I do hope in the future for the city of Watsonville in the capacity I'm in right now, or even in the future, I'm able to bring resources from a national perspective or state perspec perspective that will make our homes and our community more resilient or able to bounce back from future natural hazards, whatever that looks like. Um, it's been a privilege serving the community of Watsonville for the past 16 years, and I don't look to leave the city anytime soon. So they're stuck with me as the sustainability manager for a while now. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:50:05 Well that, that's good. All right. Thank you. Well, thank you Jackie, for being my guest on sustainability now.
Speaker 3 00:50:10 Thank you so much. It was an honor.
Speaker 2 00:50:13 If you'd like to listen to previous shows, you can find them at k squid.org/sustainability now, and Spotify, Google Podcasts, and PocketCasts among other podcast sites. Thanks for listening and thanks to all the staff and volunteers who make Case Squid your community radio station and keep it going. And so until next, every other Sunday, sustainability, now
Speaker 1 00:50:47 Zone tropic sea wind blowing trees to find.
